Unfortunately I can't give any details on the Baron except to say that he is a direct descendant of a titled European family. I promised to protect his identity. He is well known in his own right with friends and contacts in the social, political and entertainment worlds. Though he is a warlock (male witch) he doesn't seek publicity. His activities in this area are known only to a few close friends and they form a closely-knit coven in New York. I found out later that the Baron had done his homework on me! He had heard me on radio, seen me on TV, and showed me three of my own books which he had read.
The first thing the Baron said to me when I met him was "Greetings fellow witch!" We both laughed. I asked him "Why did you call me a witch?" His answer: "Because you are, whether you know it or not, whether you prefer to call yourself one or not. Your work, your appearance, your hands, your writings, your views if you had lived during the Inquisition you would have been burned at the stake, but then, on second thought, you may not have been you would have beat your accusers to it by accusing them before they could accuse you. I know this from having read your book on Psychic Blackmail."
LLM: That's funny. For years many of my friends have jokingly called me a witch. That triggers off a memory:
When I was about five or six years old I invented a game called The Witch which I played while in St. Anne's Orphanage, Worcester, Mass. Of course I was the Witch. While living with my father and attending school in South-bridge, Mass. I was already experimenting with palmistry, studying handwriting analysis, doing hypnotism. Because of this many people thought I had the "Evil Eye." I mention this in my book HIDDEN WORLDS OF HYPNOTISM. But I prefer to talk about you. How did you find out that you're a witch?
Baron: One of my ancestors was tortured and then burned at the stake. My mother told me about this when I was thirteen, in Europe. Here let me show you.
The Baron brought out an old, yellowing, book, the pages were ragged around the edges, the print was small but ornate, there were many illustrations of witches, torture implements, and a chronology of persons condemned by the Inquisition. This was in a foreign print so I could not read it. I cannot identify the language, or rather won't, in order to protect the Baron. He showed me a name which was the same as his own real name.
LLM: Are you saying that witches run in the family? That witchcraft is something inherited rather than acquired?
Baron: No, not in a hereditary, or genetic sense. A child of a witch brought up by nonwitches wouldn't be a witch ... at least not a practicing one. It is possible that such a child would discover his or her innate faculties later on. No child is born a Catholic or Protestant. He is taught that. Same with witches. Witchcraft, like any other belief, is more a state of mind than of circumstance. I distinctly remember the profound sense of shock, of injustice and identification to my murdered ancestor, when my mother told me about him and our family history. She warned me never to mention it to anyone. My father had brought home a Eucharist he had received at Holy Communion.
Looking me straight in the eye he said: "You will promise never to reveal this to anyone. You will work to avenge the death of your ancestor. Here." My father shoved a dagger into my hand and said "Stab the host. Stab it." I was terrified. Finally after my father had shouted "Stab the host" again I suddenly plunged the knife into it ... not once, but again and again and again until it was torn to smithereens. I was exhausted, frightened, and in my confusion started to cry uncontrollably.
I hated my father for asking me to do such an evil thing. Then both my mother and my father held me and my father spoke to me gently: "Forgive me if I upset you. You did not do an evil thing. The priests and nuns told you that the Eucharist was the body and blood of Jesus Christ. That if you cut into it it would bleed. What they have told you is evil. See? Nothing happened. It's just a piece of bread. They lied to you. You haven't done anything wrong. You've just killed a lie. Look at those pieces of blessed bread? Where's the blood? They lied to you. They killed your ancestor. Never let anyone know. But you, son, now know the truth. What you did could only be a sin if it was true. It isn't."
LLM: That must have been a terribly traumatic experience for a young boy. Did your parents practice witchcraft. Did they tell you they were witches and that you were one too?
Baron: Yes. My father was a very logical man, astute in business, owned lots of property. He was good friends with the local priests. They thought that when he died he would leave them some of his property. He led them to believe this. He made contributions to the church, kept up appearances with my mother, attended Mass and other church services. For years ... long before they told me about my ancestor they sent me to my cousin's home after Mass each Sunday. I found out later that they had brought home the two hosts and stabbed them, after they went through a mock ceremony of the Mass, with black candles shaped like the male genitals, which both my mother and father made themselves. They called upon the devil, the Black Legion, the denizens of Hell, and at the end ritually stabbed the hosts.
Prior to my parents coming to America they had sold their properties, one by one, clandestinely. The contract that my father drew up stated that if any word of the sale leaked out before he left the country the sale would be null and void. Not even my cousins knew what he was doing. When we finally left, supposedly on a pleasure trip to America, and the new owners declared themselves, two of them Jews, all bedlam broke loose.
The priests almost had apoplexy. The property that they hoped to get for themselves was now owned by a Jewish businessman! We laughed ourselves sick when my cousin sent us a letter saying "How could you do such a thing, and not even letting us know? The whole town's been talking about it ever since you left. The priest gave a sermon last Sunday and he said: The killers of Christ now own property that was promised to the Church. God will punish those responsible." LLM: Have you practiced the Black Mass?
Baron: Yes, but we do it more as a joke. I don't believe in any Christian Gods or Devils. And unlike many Satanists we have absolutely no sense of evil about ourselves. As you yourself wrote in your Psychic Blackmail book: "Never accept an unearned guilt." My parents were more religious, in their unorthodox way, than I.
I have the same revulsion towards religious fanatics, especially Catholics, as they would have towards me for stabbing the Eucharist. But unlike them we and our ancestors haven't killed anyone. They can't stab a Eucharist but they stab their fellowman in the back every day. They look upon the Black Mass as evil but have no scruples about keeping the Black Masses (Negroes in America as one example) under their lily-white Christian feet.
The Alchemist. Alchemy is a branch of the occult arts that reached, its peak during the Middle Ages.
LLM: Your views are similar to your friend Maria's (another witch that I interviewed): What's more they're rational ... or is that a dirty word to witches?
Baron: Not to rational witches! (We both laughed at the seeming contradiction in terms!) LLM: How do you use Witchcraft in your life?
Baron: Simple. The minute I hear any priest or minister espousing some theological cause I immediately take the opposite view. Pray to God? I'll pray to the devil! I'm not in full agreement with all of the Ten Commandments but those I can accept I do only because they were plagiarized from the Code of Hammurabi. As to rituals: Yes, I practice some of them. I use herbs, candles, Holy Wafers, meditation, concentration, yoga, hypnotism ... I'm an expert at self-hypnosis and I can anaesthetize my whole body ... want to see?
LLM: Yes I would.
Baron: Just give me a couple of minutes. (The Baron then put himself into a trance. His breathing became heavy. His body was limp. Then he opened his eyes and said) "Watch". At this he pulled a long needle out of a leather case, lit a match under it "To sterilize any germs" he said and proceeded to stick the needle right through his cheek. "Examine it" he said "to make sure it's not a trick needle." I did. It was genuine. He inserted the needle into his hand, his leg, his ear lobe, his under lip. No pain. No blood. Not a wince.'
LLM: If many of the witches and innocents during the Inquisition knew how to do that they would not only have completely frustrated their tormentors but would have died painless.
Baron: So true ... so true. They knew about, and used, what used to be called animal magnetism, the
Evil Eye, and later Mesmerism, but unfortunately it wasn't as highly developed as it is now ... it was a hit and miss proposition then. I sincerely hope that some of them could do it ... for their sakes.
LLM: Of course hypnotism has nothing to do with witchcraft ... it's a natural phenomena.
Baron: Of course it is. Just what the hell do you think witchcraft is all about? Everything considered witchcraft by the Church turned out to be scientific fact: Electricity, electric lights, airplanes, anaesthetics, hypnotism, the earth being round etc. etc. Many of the medicines and cures were based on the natural medicinal properties of various herbs. Scientists today are taking a second look at many of the remedies used by witchdoctors in the past and discovering new so-called "miracle drugs" in them.
From Astrology to Astronomy, from Alchemy to Chemistry, from animal magnetism to modern hypnotism, from trance inducing drugs to truth serums, from astral flights to airplanes, all of them had their origin in the ancient beliefs, in Witchcraft, in the Old Religion. And modern hypnotism has played a part in all ancient religious ceremonies, though neither called nor known as such then. The constant beat of the torn torn, the incense, the fires, the monotonous chants, the droned prayers, all of this supercharged suggestion led to trances, visions, possessions, some remarkable bodily feats, including the walking through fire, on burning coals, etc.
Just because modern hypnotists have stripped their subject of all religious, occult or mystical trappings doesn't mean that it wasn't hypnotism. In fact it was these very trappings that made the trance state all the more possible ... and powerful.
LLM: How do you think most people who know you would react if they found out that you were a witch?
Baron: They probably wouldn't believe it, or would laugh it off. My intimate friends are twelve, male and female, and with myself we have our own coven. You're the first person outside of this group to know about it You came highly recommended by Maria who read your ad in the Village Voice. When she told me about you I showed her your books. Your name rang a bell in my mind. Maria is one of us.
LLM: Since most witches believe in Reincarnation isn't it possible, according to their own views, that some of the burned Inquisitional witches have reincarnated into dissenting Catholic priests?
Baron: Definitely. The Law of Karma is always operating, whether one accepts Reincarnation or not. It's cause and effect. Since the Church itself believes in souls, celebrating All Soul's Day, these souls who were unjustly tortured and burned at the stake will haunt the Catholic Church until it's totally destroyed. I truly believe-that the souls of thousands of witches have reincarnated into dissenting Catholic priests. And those burned in Salem have reincarnated into rebel and radical ministers. Not to do evil but to right a wrong. Not so much out of" revenge ... though justified ... but for justice.
Christianity can have no objection to that: It's entire theology is based upon punishment and reward ... Heaven, Hell, Limbo, Purgatory the early Church believed in Reincarnation but got rid of that idea as not being in her best interests ... many publicized witches have claimed that they are not antiChristian, and exist only to do good, but if that was true they would have to be anti-Christian.
As you yourself wrote: "How can you condemn and condone a thing at the same time?" How can a witch believe in Reincarnation, in Karma, and then Christianize themselves by talking about forgiveness? Are murderers, rapists, muggers or criminals forgiven in our society? What about the Nazis who are still being discovered and tried and sentenced in Germany right now? And what about the Nuremberg War Crimes Trials? Did the Jews forgive Adolf Eichmann when they captured him in Argentina and forced him aboard an Israeli plane?
Sorcerers were popularly imagined to appear as this one does.
They later convicted and sentenced him for being responsible for the murder of millions of Jews. Strange that those who claim to believe in Law and Order, in Justice, in Civil Rights, in God, in Religious Freedom, are often the same ones who, without investigation and certainly no facts, have condemned the practice of witchcraft as something evil or irrational yet see no contradiction in their own beliefs and practices ... crossing themselves, knocking on wood, using "Holy" water, buying indulgences, receiving Holy Communion, being afraid of the devil, praying to an unseen God, believing in the Hereafter, lighting candles, burning incense, having their houses "blessed," exorcising evil spirits, belief in the "Resurrection of the body of Jesus Christ" and on and on and on.
LLM: You raise an interesting point. What do you think of an International Tribunal to try the Catholic Church, its Inquisition, Its Popes, the Inquisitors themselves posthumously, something along the lines of the Nuremberg War Crimes Trials?
Baron: I wish I had thought of that! You certainly come up with the damndest ideas I ever heard ... Witch .. Yes ... yes ... why not? Did someone say "Crime doesn't pay?" Or is "getting away with murder" more appropriate? Come to think of it: When has there ever been an official condemnation by secular governments or churches themselves? In fact some of the Inquisitors were canonized as saints by the Church.
(Note: Two blood-thirsty Inquisitors, the Italian, Peter Martyr of Verona (d. 1365) and the Spaniard, Pedro Arues (d. 1485) were later canonized as "Saints" by Pope Pius IX. In every hearing for sainthood there is a trial in which the Devil's Advocate takes the opposing view, supposedly, yet in the light of the above he is aptly named! The Catholic Church also pays homage to the following Saints ... Philomena, Rene, Corona, Reine. The only problem here is that they never existed!)
LLM: Do you think that descendants of the Salem; Mass, witches who were hanged and crushed should sue that city and any existing churches for reparations? If nothing else sue to clear the names of their ancestors? To .demand a public confession and apology from modern day church officials for the atrocities committed by their forebears?
Baron: Here we go again! I never thought of that either yet it's perfectly logical. Wasn't there a case in the newspapers recently by a descendant of one of General Ouster's men who was tried for treason? His descendant fought in the courts to have his ancestor's name exonerated. He won. He, through the help of a writer, proved that General Custer was an incompetent, vainglorious, bumbling idiot. It shouldn't be more difficult to prove the same about the Salem sadists. I sincerely pray that some descendant of a so-called witch, one who can prove it genealogically, reads this and acts upon it.
LLM: Yes, that case is what gave me the idea. As I point out in my Psychic Blackmail book many wronged people give what I call the "sanction of the victim" to their abusers one of the worst sanctions of evil is say-nothing do-nothing silence. If you were a descendant of a Salem executed witch would you sue?
Baron: I certainly would. First I'd look into all the legal possibilities and would not proceed without an excellent lawyer. However, as you know, I'm a descendant of a European Witch. As an American citizen it would be impracticable for me to sue the Catholic Church in Rome. Then too I don't want any publicity. I intend to write to friends in Europe about this though. (Intuitively we both began to laugh hysterically ... we both simultaneously had visions of the newspaper headlines around the world!)
LLM: Isn't the Establishment's "recognition" of "established or recognized religions" discrimination against offbeat, minority religions like Witchcraft, and isn't this a violation of their Civil Rights?
Baron: Laughing ... It sure is! Our Constitution stresses Separation of Church and State but the fact is that most of our government officials are members of "recognized religions" ... they do discriminate against minority religions ... how many of the latter have gotten tax-free land from the government? And what right have they to "approve" of theological seminaries, giving respect to its graduate priests and ministers, and condemning as "phony" ministers of unorthodox minority religious just because they haven't the money or the power to institutionalize themselves ...
LLM: Do you have any children?
Baron: I have a married son. Both he and his wife are very happy. They get a big kick out of belonging to our New York coven, their "underground religion" as they call it. He's an attorney and his wife is a freelance writer and has also done interior decorating. Both firmly believe in the power of -thought. Both consider themselves witches. The reason none of us let others, know is because we feel that it would dilute our strength. It's not so much fear ... we don't have any and would be prepared to strike back at any attacker it's a matter of conserving our power, our strength, our unity in maintaining our secret coven ... it's a source of inspiration, a secret society in which we enjoy ourselves and each other. We don't want it polluted by exposing it to the public.
LLM: What do you think is the reason for the sudden increased interest in witchcraft?
Baron: Poetic justice. They tried to exterminate witches and only forced them underground. They tried to exterminate the Jews and the result of that is the state of Israel. The law of Karma. Christianity plagiarized most of its doctrines from older religions, including the oldest, Witchcraft. Now it has come back to haunt the Church. What is that line? "The evil one does lives after him ...?"
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